Interview with Andranik Hovhannisyan, Ambassador of Armenia to Switzerland and Permanent Representative at the United Nations Office in Geneva

11 November, 2020

Interview with Andranik Hovhannisyan, Ambassador of Armenia to Switzerland and Permanent Representative at the United Nations Office in Geneva

Corriere dell’Italianita Newspaper

November 11, 2020. GENEVA.

A conflict without glimmers of light

by Luca Bernasconi

The interview with Armenian Ambassador Andranik Hovhannisyan was made before last November 13, when it was announced about the ceasefire agreement between Armenia and Azerbaijan, brokered by Russia. We asked the diplomat what is Armenia's position regarding the document that marks the cessation of hostilities between the two countries. According to the Ambassador, it aims to establish a ceasefire and to deploy peacekeeping troops in Artsakh. All issues related to the Nagorno-Karabakh peace process are in fact subject exclusively to discussion within the Co-chairmanship of the Minsk Group of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.

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The war in Nagorno-Karabakh claimed an estimated 8’000 victims in the first month of fighting. These victims are not just a number – they are faces, thoughts, feelings and relationships which are lost forever. The number of displaced persons could reach 100'000. In the Nagorno-Karabakh region, incessant fighting took place between the Azerbaijani forces and Armenian militia. Diplomacy has failed. The meeting in Geneva on October 30 between the foreign ministers of the two states in conflict did not in fact lead to any agreement: the armistice a dream, peace an utopia? Turkey and Pakistan have openly sided with Azerbaijan, while the rest of the international community condemns the war and is clamoring for an end to hostilities. We met Andranik Hovhannisyan, the Armenian ambassador to Switzerland and the representative of Armenia at the UN in Geneva.

1. What is your role, and what powers do you have in the negotiations between the two warring countries?

It may sound strange that even in this era of developed telecommunications a large-scale war at the outskirts of Europe still remains largely under-covered and under-comprehended. As a diplomat, and as an Armenian, I see my role in raising the awareness of the human suffering and tragedy, the dire humanitarian situation and gross violation of the human rights perpetrated by Azerbaijan in the course of its brutal aggression against the people of Artsakh (The Nagorno-Karabakh Republic). No one should be left behind, and everyone is entitled to the respect of Human Rights. One of the aims of the Armenian diplomacy is to make sure that these are not just beautiful slogans and promises occasionally uttered by the international actors but precise actions. Azerbaijan does its best to prevent the international presence in the conflict zone, including by rejecting the visits of any international organizations. If we manage to secure larger attention of the international community to this unfolding tragedy that can contribute to the establishment of peace and security in the region.

As for the conflict resolution process, it is run under the auspices of the Minsk Group Co-chairs (France, Russia and the USA) of the Organization for Security and Cooperation for Europe. It is a restricted confidential format as far as the negotiations are concerned since the issues discussed are understandably very sensitive for all parties.

2. What results were achieved after the meeting in Geneva between the representatives of the two countries in conflict? What is your overall assessment of the meeting?

After many hours of intensive negotiations with the mediation of the Co-chairs, the sides agreed to refrain from deliberately targeting civilian population or non-military objects, and to exchange remains of fallen servicemen and lists of detained persons. They also agreed to continue the work on the verification mechanisms of ceasefire violations. These agreements were not respected by Azerbaijan which hours later bombed market in Stepanakert, capital of Nagorno-Karabakh, and used internationally banned phosphorus bombs over the forest terrain in Nagorno-Karabakh specifically intended to add an environmental disaster to the unfolding humanitarian one. Such acts amount to war crimes. They also, time and again, vividly demonstrate that Azerbaijan is not a credible and trustworthy partner for negotiations.

3. What more could diplomacy do to make some headway in this matter?

I believe that the candid and overt denunciation of the use of force, direct condemnation of the aggression by Azerbaijan, use of foreign terrorist fighters by it and denouncement of the involvement of external powers, such as Turkey, will largely contribute to the peace efforts. The long-established tradition and tide of “both-sides” blaming only bolsters Azerbaijan to continue its military adventurism. The aggressor and victim cannot be put on an equal footing. Appeasing of Azerbaijan, on the other hand, is interpreted by its leadership as a blind license to kill and continue with its atrocious policies. Only targeted condemnation and criticism can contribute to bringing Azerbaijan to senses. It’s certainly may not be enough, but an important step towards establishment of peace. By saying this, I would also like to remind that when recently Turkey was threatened by sanctions from one of the OSCE Minsk Group Co-chairing States, President Erdogan bragged that nothing can stop Turkey from supporting Azerbaijan. A number of international companies have already announced that they will cease cooperation with Turkey on the production of drones, which are notorious of attacking civilian population and infrastructure in Nagorno-Karabakh.

4. For more than 26 years, there was a sort of truce, cut short by the outbreak of hostilities on 27 September last year with the ferocious attack on the civilian population of Nagorno-Karabakh by the Azerbaijani army. The reason put forward by President Aliyev, according to which the region should return to the sovereignty of Azerbaijan, seems to be a mere pretext. So what are the real reasons for resuming the war?

Azerbaijan has an authoritarian government which does not allow dissent and which notoriously violates human rights. Azerbaijan wants to rally nationalistic support in the Nagorno-Karabakh war to shift the attention of its own public and the international community from its authoritarian governance and to extend its rule. Turkey's support in terms of military strength, equipment and the use of terrorists remains crucial. Turkey has a fantasy of rebuilding an Ottoman Empire. Turkey and Azerbaijan, which are two dictatorships, are attacking democratic Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh to embody their nationalist fantasies.

5. What blame can be put on Azerbaijan in the decades where no agreement could be reached?

Azerbaijan was merely buying time at the negotiation table. It rejected all peace proposals of the recent decades. They were pretending to negotiate and at the same time were continuing the military buildup. Azerbaijan spent billions of oil revenues to buy the most sophisticated weapons. Baku violated all international and European treaties and agreements on arms control, military restraint and verification, including the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe. They never paid attention to the international calls that there is no military solution to the conflict. Recently President Aliyev bragged that Baku proved that in reality there is a military solution to the conflict.

The authorities of Azerbaijan have been persistently fueling anti-Armenian sentiments in their public. The State level anti-Armenian xenophobia in Azerbaijan have been confirmed by international organizations, including by the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD), the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) of the Council of Europe and the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR).

6. What are Armenia's 'mea-culpa' in these tragic circumstances which have gone on for so long?

When the peace efforts fail it is usually the diplomacy that is blamed. However, in this case I would like to share my strong conviction that the Armenian diplomacy has done its best to secure a peace deal. It is obvious that Artsakh and Armenia did not have any reason whatsoever to go to a war with Azerbaijan as there was no objective to be achieved by military means. We have always expressed our commitment to the exclusively peaceful settlement of the conflict and even in this dire situation we continue to advocate for the political resolution based on mutual compromises. The Prime Minister of Armenia, the Foreign Minister have been very vocal in this regard.

7. President Aliyev has refused to agree to any solution unless Nagorno-Karabakh returns to the sovereignty of Baku. What is preventing Armenia from agreeing to restitution?

First, Nagorno-Karabakh has never been part of independent Azerbaijan. Thus, there cannot be any claim of Baku’s sovereignty over it.

The apparent objective of Azerbaijan is to conquer Nagorno-Karabakh and to ethnically cleanse it of its Armenian population. The president of Azerbaijan does not make a secret out of that, and he said that they are fed up with the negotiations, and Azerbaijan is going to advance until they occupy entire Nagorno-Karabakh. He literally said that “We will throw Armenians out of there anyway. There will be no trace of them left on those lands.” When adversary army is fed by such kind of hate speech, there is a real threat of mass atrocities and crimes against humanity. Let us not forget about the presence in the ranks of the army of Azerbaijan of the foreign terrorist fighters who are trained to commit mass atrocities. This is why the International Association of Genocide Scholars and the Genocide Watch have identified genocidal intent in the actions of Azerbaijan and Turkey.

There are numerous evidences - photographs, videos and testimonies - which unequivocally prove Azerbaijan’s violation of international humanitarian law. The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, the Amnesty International and the Human Rights Watch made clear that actions by Azerbaijan may amount to a war crime.

In this situation defense army of Nagorno-Karabakh will not retreat because that will mean the total annihilation of the population of Nagorno-Karabakh. This is a self-defense that Nagorno-Karabakh army now is exercising there. They are fighting for their own homes, their own ancestral homeland where they have lived for many centuries, which is giving them more power, more force to defend against those superior forces of Turkey, Azerbaijan and terrorists combined together. Finally, it is not only Azerbaijan which is fighting in Nagorno Karabakh. In our opinion, Azerbaijan has succumbed at least a part of its sovereignty to Turkey, and now President Erdogan somehow dictates Azerbaijan what to do.

8. A few days ago, the Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan approached the Russian President Putin to initiate talks in order to define the type of assistance that would guarantee the safety of Armenia. Why has Russia not yet stated its position? What is it expected that the Kremlin will do?

President Putin is in close contact with the leaders of both Armenia and Azerbaijan. Russia, which strongly hopes for peace, is working hard to mediate between the parties. Russia has long been an ally of Armenia. In fact, in 1997 the two countries signed a mutual assistance agreement in the event of aggression against one or the other. On the basis of this treaty, Armenia has asked for Moscow's support. Moscow, for its part, has fully reiterated its support for the Republic of Armenia.

9. The Swiss Confederation has allocated one million Swiss francs to the Red Cross for humanitarian help in the war zone. What other concrete measures could Switzerland take to help in resolving this eternal conflict?

The International Committee of the Red Cross is the only international presence on the ground in Nagorno-Karabakh, and they play an instrumental role on the humanitarian issues. Therefore, Armenia appreciates all the support extended to the ICRC. Switzerland, as a guardian state of the Geneva Conventions, has also been vocal in condemning the violations of the International Humanitarian Law. It called for the cessation of hostilities and for returning to the negotiation table under the auspices of the Co-chairs of the OSCE Minsk Group. All these points concur with the vision of Armenia. Switzerland has always kindly hosted meetings between the parties to the conflict for negotiations.

Of course, we anticipate from our partners a more vocal and targeted condemnation of the aggression by Azerbaijan. We very much hope that the international community will recognize the right of people of Nagorno-Karabakh to self-determination as the only possible guarantee for their security. We are grateful to the City Council of Geneva that has set a proper stage for that by adopting a relevant resolution. We hope that other parties on various levels will follow the suit.

10. The Armenian community and the National Councillor Stefan Müller-Altermatt (Christian Democratic People's Party) have openly requested the boycotting of SOCAR, the State Oil Company of the Azerbaijan Republic, which supplies Migrolino petrol stations. Do you think the Federal Council should adhere to this request?

The decision rests with the Federal Council and it is a part of internal debate of the Swiss public. SOCAR is a state company and just a quick glance at its accounts in the social networks will prove that it is undoubtedly in the most certain terms supporting Azerbaijani government’s aggressive policies towards annihilation of the people of Artsakh, and funding that genocidal enterprise.

11. Which is in your opinion the principal false and thus misleading information diffused by the media, and what are the mechanisms, which paint a false picture of the situation?

One of the features of this war is a huge amount of disinformation and propaganda disseminated by Azerbaijan. Baku even does not shy away of showing the images of the destruction it caused in residential areas of Artsakh trying to portray them as if Azerbaijan was attacked.

Ever since the aggression, Azerbaijan banned the access to the conflict zone of any foreign journalists except from the Turkish Government-controlled media. The latter was embedded with the troops and reported from the front line from the very beginning of the offensive, which is another evidence that the aggression was pre-planned with active participation of the official Ankara.

Azerbaijan has always been a notorious violator of the freedom of expression. From the day one of the aggression, Azerbaijan prohibited the work of all social media on its territory. Armenia, on the other hand, is among the top ten countries of the world with total freedom on the net.

Azerbaijan heavily sensors information from the conflict zone. In the absence of the international media and the local free reporting, Baku disseminates overzealous propaganda, misinformation and groundless accusations.

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